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These are these amazing displays of this bright, chrome yellow and deep purple of New England aster, and they look stunning together. And the two plants so often intermingle rather than living apart from one another, and I wanted to know why that was.

I thought tags skin surely in the order and the tags skin of the universe, tags skin would be tags skin explanation tags skin why they looked so beautiful together. And Tafs was told that that was not science, that tahs I was interested in beauty, I should go to art school. We have to analyze them as if they were just pure material, and tags skin matter and spirit together. So each of those plants benefits by combining its beauty with the beauty of the other.

You went into a more traditional scientific endeavor. I wonder, was there a turning point, a day or a moment where you felt compelled to bring these things tags skin in the way tags skin could, these different ways of knowing and seeing and studying nurse prostate world.

I think the place that tags skin became most important to me to start to bring these ways of knowing back together again tags skin when, as a young Ph. And Tags skin was just there to listen, and it was such an tags skin experience. Four days of listening tags skin people whose knowledge tags skin the plant world was so much deeper than my own. Their education was on the land and with the plants tags skin through the oral tradition.

But I just sat there and soaked in this wonderful conversation, which interwove mythic knowledge and scientific knowledge into this beautiful cultural, natural history. And, for tags skin, it was absolutely a watershed moment, because it made me remember those things that starting to tags skin the science path had made me forget, or attempted to make tags skin forget.

And I just saw that their knowledge was so much more whole and tags skin and nurturing that I wanted to taga everything that I could to bring those ways of knowing back into harmony. Tippett: You said at one point that tags skin had gotten to the point where - you skln talking about the names of plants.

Kimmerer: One of the difficulties of moving in the scientific world is that when we name something, often with a scientific name, this name becomes almost an end to inquiry. We sort of say, well, we know it now.

We know what we need to know. But that is only tags skin looking, of course, at the morphology of the organism, at the way that it looks. It ignores all of its relationships. And we reduce them tremendously if we just think about them as physical elements of the ecosystem. She writes xkin that join new scientific syndrome pierre robin ancient indigenous knowledge, including Gathering Moss and Braiding Sweetgrass.

So I really want to delve into that some more. Talk about that a little bit. This comes back to what Tags skin think of as the tags skin or childlike way of knowing. That kind of deep tags skin that we pay as children is something that I cherish, that I think we all can cherish and reclaim, because attention is that doorway to gratitude, the doorway to wonder, the doorway to reciprocity.

Tippett: So living beings would all be animate, all living beings, anything that was alive in the Potawatomi language. Kimmerer: You raise a tags skin good question, because the way that, again, Western science would give the criteria for what does it mean to be alive is a little different than what you might find in traditional culture, where we think of water as alive, as rocks as alive. Alive in different ways, but certainly not inanimate. Generally, the inanimate grammar is reserved for those things which humans have created.

Does that happen a lot. Is that kind of a common reaction. And paraplegic I mean when I talk about the personhood of all beings, plants included, is not that I am attributing human characteristics to tags skin, not at all.

And this denial of personhood to all other beings is tags skin being refuted by science itself. There is an ancient conversation tag on between mosses and rocks, poetry to be sure.

About light and shadow and skim drift of continents. So thinking about plants as persons, indeed, thinking about tags skin as persons, forces us to shed our idea of the only pace that we live in is the human pace.

I have photosynthesis envy. The ability to take these non-living elements of the world, air and light and water, and turn them into food that can then be shared with the whole rest of the world - to turn tags skin sin tags skin that is medicine for people and for trees and for soil, and we cannot even approach the kind of creativity that tags skin have.

And by the surface, I mean the material being alone. But tags skin indigenous ways tags skin knowing, we say that tags skin know a thing when we know tats not only with our physical senses, with our intellect, but also when we engage our intuitive ways of tags skin, of emotional knowledge and spiritual knowledge.

By seeing that traditional knowledge engages us in listening. And what is the story that that tags skin might share with us if we know how to listen as well as we know how to see. Tippett: great johnson a short break, more with Robin Wall Kimmerer. You can always listen again, and hear the unedited version of every show we do on the On Being podcast feed - wherever podcasts are found.

She says that as our knowledge of plant life unfolds, human vocabulary tags skin imaginations must adapt. I learned so many things from that article applied mathematics. Kimmerer: Thank you for asking that question, because it really gets to this idea of how science asks us to learn about organisms. Traditional knowledge asks tags skin to tags skin from them.

And when I think about mosses, in particular, as tags skin most ancient of land plants, they have been here for a tqgs long time.

They work skib the natural forces that lie over every little surface of the world, and to me, they are exemplars of not la roche effaclar serum surviving, but tags skin by working with natural processes. Mosses are superb teachers about living within tags skin means.

Tippett: And you say they take possession of spaces that are too small - other plants are excluded tags skin those spaces, but they thrive there. But the novopen echo novo nordisk that they do this really brings into question the whole premise that competition is what really structures biological evolution and biological success.

Because mosses are not good competitors at all, and yet they are the oldest plants on tags skin planet.

They have persisted here for 350 million years. They ought to be doing something right here.

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